Episode 6: Michelle Steiner - Learning to Thrive with Invisible Disability

Join us as we hear Michelle Steiner explains how she not only learned to live with, but thrive with the challenges of having Dyscalculia.

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Transcript

I have dyscalculia or dyscalculia depending on how you pronounce it and that is a math learning disability where I struggle with numbers but that struggle goes beyond just the math class

[Music]

well welcome to hello world Michelle thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story with our audience oh thank you so much for having me I certainly appreciate it awesome well you know I would like to start with a A you know a little fun get to know you question um you know using three words or three short phrases um that best describe who you are if you want to share those with us I I did give you a pre-warning so you hopefully you had a little bit time to kind of Select those words no that is perfectly fine uh some of the things that I've heard from other people as well I am caring I am kind and I'm creative oh those are wonderful three words that's that's okay um you say creative kind and what's that oh you like to help people yes definitely that's fantastic well that goes right into our episode today because you're using your your abilities to help others this is this is um thank you for sharing that and on top of the um the episode where we introduced you um we talked about learning disabilities and that you were diagnosed with learning disabilities at a very young age do you mind sharing with our audience um what what learning challenges are you living with sure I have this calculia or this calculia depending on how you pronounce it and that is a math learning disability where I struggle with numbers but the struggle goes beyond just the math class I can struggle with things such as directional Concepts and I can confuse my my right from my left I also have limited hand dexterity in both of my hands and that wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult and I also have visual perception issues but the problem isn't in my eyes it's in my brain I see so those are all related to this cow this calculia is that did I say it right yes exactly they are all yep oh so okay so I had to Google for a second what what that is and it's you know the short forms is like math dyslexia um and but it goes actually beyond that so dealing with numbers in in sometimes directions and oh well that makes it a little bit inconvenient in life isn't it it sure does it can be really difficult uh during my school years it really impacted me academically and socially that's that was the main thing that that did but in my adult years it has affected things not only academic and socially uh but also uh with everyday life things such as driving and opening up doors and unlocking things and budgeting can really be difficult um with having the learning disabilities things that we take for granted opening doors things that that we take for granted it could be a challenge so interesting to know um now I learned a little bit um about your your um what you I guess live with is that a right way to say it yeah what you live with through your well-written article um and it's called My disability is not black and white it's a rainbow and I I want to I want to quote this beginning part because you set it up so well um you said that a rainbow occurs when the sun and the rain occur together two opposite forces occurring at once creates a beautiful flash of color in the sky my learning disability functions like a rainbow can you can you elaborate a little bit more about this rainbow and this these forces well one of the things that having a learning disability just goes along with is that is the rain that is the storm that I came across whenever I was a small child and when I was really little all I could see was the storm all I could see was the rain coming down but what I was starting to I can now look back on and just see in my life now is there was some sun there was a lot of sunshine there was a lot of happiness and a lot of joy that was going to happen and whenever the sun and the rain will come together uh it creates that the rainbow and it's just a reflection of the light and the light and seeing the the beauty and all that that didn't come as well as a lot later in my life but then I got to see all having a learning disability isn't the end of the world there's a lot of Beauty in it that I can help myself and I can help others with that and another key piece about the rainbow is uh it has different colors we have red orange yellow green blue indigo and violet and that also represents the the different types of disabilities and when a lot of people think about learning disabilities or even other types of disabilities it's very black and white to them a lot of people it's a person with a disability can't learn what the learning Isabel you can't learn or somebody that has you can't have a disability if you where's your cane there where's your Walker yes and much like the different colors of a rainbow that's the way that having a disability is they come in a wide range of colors and it's not a black and white thing and it's just a lot of times on how somebody learns to view and accept their disability is so important like you said um learning disability I heard it's also called like invisible disability sometimes it's not observable until you're actually interacting with them um so that that's that that really helps us to understand that you can't just necessarily see it from the surface how do you I mean I don't think we you will walk around and say I have this ability because sometimes it's nice that they don't know but sometimes the expectations there that you kind of wish they do now how do you cope with that that wanting them to know and yet not wanting them to know how do you deal with that a lot of it really depends on the situation I do have that privilege that I can walk into a room and people don't see the disability that somebody might have with the visible disability or a physical one so that that can make it a little easier for people that don't know me to automatically make an assumption but it can be really hard when I struggle in the community or it can be really difficult especially if I'm at work and those are some times where I do have to sometimes say that I have a disability uh I was the school year will be starting tomorrow and uh okay yeah which is wonderful I'm also working with a new new people it's a new position new teachers and I had to go around today and explain to people that who I was and that I had a math learning disability and I'm cannot help the kids with math they all know this usually by the beginning of the year and thankfully I work for a school where having learning disabilities and other types of disabilities is a part is a big part of our culture so the teacher that I one of the teachers I was working with is like that's fine we can accommodate you that works out for us but it can be hard sometimes to explain that to people that don't quite understand uh what what they are a lot of times if I'm talking with somebody that they don't know that I have a wondering disability and they wonder why can't you drive why can't you do math or understand the directions uh I'll tell them why I have a learning disability and they'll say well you don't look like you're disabled you should just give them your article because it was so well written that I I think you mentioned um that it was frustrating because you would be good at one part of a subject yes and then struggle with another part of the same subject can you can you like give me an example how that works is it in you know yeah yeah a great example is reading I am a very fluent reader and I read with a lot of expression and I know a lot of words but I struggle with reading comprehension so I can remember I was in learning support and the others my other peers were wondering well why are you here you can read so well and they struggled more with the reading uh than I did and my teacher said she just needs a little extra help with that but sometimes I could read a sentence perfectly or a paragraph uh with very little errors and if you would ask me okay what did you read about I would it could be really hard for me to fill in some of those details yes and people would tell me well you just need to slow down when you read and that only helps a little bit it's learning how to engage with the text and to ask questions and Define the important information that really became a factor whenever I was in regular Ed classes I would read a chapter and it was hard for me to know what information was important for studying for a test and I sometimes I wouldn't do very well on it because I would fixate on something else that wasn't uh necessary so what's really interesting that I'm learning myself through just our conversation right now and through your article is you know you have the this cap this calculia right and you think it's just the math thing but you just mentioned the struggles also in other areas that you didn't expect to sh that if I didn't understand it better to show up so it really is um important to understand when someone's sharing with you that they have learning disabilities to understand the different presentations so you can be sensitive to to to those needs because I think that's what you said that you know you're you're learning disability is not black and white and fits in neat categories they kind of show up wherever it shows up right exactly it could it does not have just one place that'll show up it can show up also with processing uh things too sometimes somebody can give me directions and it doesn't involve math but I can get those confused and it's just learning how to be able to compensate and really be able to know what strategies work for me I see and how I can learn best I see so you know in a in at least in the American school system standardized testing is is definitely a thing um and I personally I'm a horrible test taker um so how do you how do you address that how did the school how do you address that um in your experience um with it right I did have standardized testing and I can still remember uh we would get we I would take the test and we would get the results back and nothing was ever really surprising I can remember they had like the little straws and that showed like a bar graph on your sports and I'd have a big big area with reading that was good uh and then my math would be this little tiny bar and I can remember looking at that and I always felt bad and they always had like suggestions of working uh with me and my my parents my parents did work with me and the school was wonderful with accommodations and doing a lot of strategies but I just always felt bad when I did that because sometimes I thought when I took that test they were testing me on things that they thought I should know and they never asked me well what do you know it was always on uh what somebody else thought I should know and uh that was really difficult for me and I don't think they always accurately described me as a whole person sure they they said that I was bad at math we we knew that yeah pointing out the obvious right for yeah for you and that right and but they never got to what I was really good at and a lot of people would see the scores and they thought well based on this she really can't do a whole lot and they would think that they would try to limit me with that and then other people they saw it and said okay this this is a learning disability she's better at reading she's better at uh punctuation that that's a good thing and okay she definitely needs the extra support in math and that's what the school provided and I also can remember in the high school years we had to take a standardized test and I remember them giving the test out and the guidance counselor was saying this is the most important test you'll take this is going to determine whether you're living in the shack and oh my non-desirable neighborhood where you're going to have a great job oh my gosh it's called to dictate your life yeah that's what he was saying and I was a little concerned and it was a science test which science can be really hard because it has the math as far as I know no none of the jobs that I've worked at have ever called the school up and you said hey what what score did she get back in ninth grade I I haven't had that perhaps I have maybe they did but none of the jobs that I chose did that and I didn't end up living in the neighborhood they said if you didn't pass that test you were going to be at oh my goodness you know it's stressful already to take these tests and to add that um it's gonna dictate your life it's not helpful come on guidance counselors come on yeah so with your with with your learning disability and how you perform at school and through the test scores how have your teachers been um I guess how have they been supporting you a lot of what we did when I was young was I had to repeat kindergarten for a second time and I began to receive specialty instruction I had a just work based upon my level when I was young in the beginning and then they start to see oh she can read so I was able to be a more regular red classes I was in regular Ed for reading uh science and social studies I still had some learning Support classes and of course math I was always in there for math I eventually I was in all regular Ed classes except for math by the time I was in high school yeah and I also had a resource room and I was given support such as having extended test time and they would also read the tests aloud to me and just hearing that and having that extra time helped my brain to process the information a lot better I had some teachers who were very understanding and went the extra mile and really encouraged me they did a lot based on my strengths but I also had some other ones that weren't quite that understanding I can remember even in the elementary school my handwriting is affected by my learning disability and you basically the coordination in part yeah yeah and everything made sense when they got me diagnosed with the limited index they're needing both hands but I had a teacher put W on my report card indicating weakness in handwriting and that was really difficult and I also had some other teachers I can remember I had one I was coloring a map and he held my map up and said does this look like she's doing her best so that was a real you know that that was difficult and my parents did advocate for me and talk to the school and we didn't have that issue again and I also had a teacher whenever we were doing all the post-secondary classes uh what am I going to do after school and she knew I wanted to go to college but she didn't think I could do it because of my math and recommended trade school which is fine but nothing there interested me thankfully I had a lot of people who were encouraging I had a student teacher during the time when we were figuring out what I was going to do post-secondary and she said you can go to college because you know how to study and sometimes just hearing her voice yes was the voice that I remember whenever things got really hard after high school this is a student teacher this is not even your your seasoned teacher this is a student teacher so message to student teachers out there your words can matter even as you're learning to become a teacher that's amazing I wanted to also you know explore a little bit about you know it's great that the teachers were nice and um some weren't as nice but kids is a whole nother story oh yeah I don't want to spend too much time on that but just to understand where you where you came from right um how were they it was really difficult for me socially part of the reason for the difficulty was I was an only child for a number of years so I had a lot more adult interactions by the time I went into kindergarten rather than other kids and having the disability made me stick out like a sort of thumb I can remember uh the small school I went to the Valley University and it was really hard to hide and blend in everybody knew I went to learning support and the teasing and the bullying started really early when I was young yes and as a kid in elementary school it was I don't want to be your friend or I don't want to play with you on the playground and it got harder as I got through school because it was more um I the groups were a lot more defined and I just didn't feel like I fit in anywhere so one of the things that really helped though is I found a Nord program in a neighboring School District

it was a Ministry program they had different things planned uh and the basis was art for one of the recreation and I remember I participated in their newsletter and this gave me the chance to meet other students that didn't know who I was and they were in a different school and but they had the same interest and I was accepted by them and I could shed that reputation that I had for so many years later that I had for so many years and I was also able to Branch out in the community to meet other people I my friends I found them in a writing group and they were just a couple years older than I was and your mature more mature anyways because you had adult interactions early so right I had yeah exactly I had the adult interactions and I'm still friends with them 20 some years later and we have a writers group and still meets uh once a month what you just share is I think it's a really important tip um because folks with learning disabilities there are many um and and I'm sure they all struggle at school that they're where they're known but to find another area outside of that community you can flourish and I think that isn't that important to know what you are experience at school is is just one aspect of humanity and there's so much more elsewhere to know that you're actually actually I'm okay you know they're the one who's struggling with me but I am actually okay wow that's that's I'm glad you found that community and and gave yourself the because I feel like you're so positive right now and and ex you know expressing life through the lens of a rainbow as opposed to dark clouds um would you would you say that that how that probably helped definitely it has really helped with their acceptance and sometimes we I would go through things in school or college and uh they couldn't go in and change my grade or change the fact that I had a disability or uh help in that way but the way they were able to help me was being a friend and just being able to hang out with them on the weekends and talking with them or coffee over things and just having that friendship sometimes that just made all the difference in the world and being able to see uh you through that tough time but also coming out on the other side with graduations or grades or just weddings and things and those are just the things that really matter so so having the struggle like you have shared through your high school but you chose to continue in post-secondary um so you mentioned that that student teacher gave you some I guess encouragement that you can do this because she recognized that you are a studious student that you actually put in the effort so what was what was post-secondary like well in the beginning it was really difficult for me I can remember one of the agencies I got involved with office for educational Rehabilitation they were great about paying for school okay and one of the things though is I had to get tested for a learning disability all over again and I once again felt more limitations I can remember the psychiatrist telling me you're most likely not going to go beyond Community College we have those uh once again standardized testing that I I'm and I don't test well and the scores were pretty low and when I got to Community College I did not receive a whole lot of support with accommodations a lot of time they were out there but I had one of my peers said well those are cheating that gives you an unfair advantage and I even had a professor when I was reaching out to her uh she told me that my job choices would be really limited and just with all of that uh negativity that's and the stigma that's why I didn't get a lot of the accommodations early on and I wish I would have done that because my grades dropped dramatically because I wasn't getting the supports that I needed and it wasn't until I found I was in a class with a professor and I was really struggling in her class and she said why don't we at least get you extended test time and I didn't do well in her class but I was able to pass that and I was able to pass my other classes as well got a little bit better and I graduated with an associate's degree in early childhood education uh but I use the accommodations later on when using them sooner would have been better for me so the reason why because you what you got through testing and then they are the results were what did you say was awful was was poorly is that that's just well definitely it was the math before that was really bad and there just was people thought based upon a lot of the tests that I couldn't do certain things they didn't think I could handle Community College even when I went back uh to get testing for some other things I needed to have the documentation for uh with my bachelor's degree they told me that whenever I put interest in news articles or writing things or doing uh plays they told me I couldn't do that and that's I love to say that I've been able to do a lot of those things not the math but a lot of those interests I'm I'm able to do as long as I use the supports that are out there out there so the reason why you did not use the support um in community college is it because it wasn't given to you or or you mentioned that it was the stigma in in maybe back then learning disability and accommodations wasn't as well publicized as it is more so I feel like in present time that you didn't feel comfortable in using it right it was the stigma the the accommodations were out there I just didn't use them because I didn't like the stigma that was attached to them but whenever I went back to school after I moved in with my parents for financial reasons I used the accommodations that were offered and I advocated for myself and it that is what made all the difference I was able to make dean's list for a semester I was I did well I was able to graduate with the bachelor's degree and I wasn't working at the time which really helped too because I could dedicate my time with studying rather than uh trying to work 20 hours a week and be a full-time student that was really tough as well what what made you more open or risk the stigma the second time around I think a lot of the school sure a lot of it was age I think was a big factor I was more mature than I was when I graduated high school I knew that other people were going to maybe not approve of them made me think that they were definitely giving me an unfair Advantage but I learned at that point that I just had to push those voices aside and focus on what I needed to do I also had a few different employers by that time so I think that helped me out too with learning uh how to communicate with authority figures and work through some problems that was another Factor as well so you I guess you mentioned also in your article you you're embrace the fact that you have learning disability and you need the accommodations and I think what I heard is during your high school elementary school time you were given that and you used the accommodations but in Community College you didn't and you saw the difference of not using it exactly they were helpful so then now in in when you went to went back to school in um you did use it and you actually made the Dean's List It made the difference so having that paradigm shift this was important was important it was it was really important having that definitely and that increased my confidence it helped me to accept my disability as well I think that was the main thing it was uh owning the fact that I had a learning disability and these were things that I was going to uh need to be able to do to be successful and when I finally got my bachelor's degree that gave me that confidence that I I use today I use it when I work with my students I use it whenever I write about having a learning disability uh writing has always been really healing for me I had a friend that told me years ago my writers group you know you should write about having a learning disability and I told her well that's too personal yeah and I think I wrote some bad poetry some other really uh cringe-worthy stories and art stories and things uh that I want to want to read now but I think when I finally embraced I have a learning disability and I'm okay with writing about it then that is when my confidence really soared I can still remember the first article I wrote that was published on the mighty about my struggle of opening up doors with limited hand dexterity and I was so afraid for a lot of years that people were going to reject me because of having the disability and for the most part the opposite happened people were running towards me saying I understand I have a disability like that or I know somebody that does and people just gave me that encouragement for the most part and I just wanted to write more articles by that point and I started uh to get more things accomplished and there's a few other places and then I began my own blog called Michelle's mission where I'm able to put a disability related articles and I'm also able to put my photography as well um yeah tell us about well before you get to the photography yeah I think that I think that writing writing part is where you're you're using your strengths right to because you like you said you when you test it the tall bars are always the the the reading and writing part and um and then and in that article that I've been referencing uh quite a bit is um so enlightening it helps people to understand learning disability and and right now you're also a para educator yes um so you're so you're actually your degree is in um Community programming for Americans with Disabilities that's my bachelor's and my associates is early childhood education uh but the bachelor's is in the service and the special education how it seems natural that you would um be in this this line of work if you will um is that something you you wanted to do you always wanted to do um or this is something that um that is a it's a gift that life brought you I think it's a mixture of both it's a gift to be able to be able to write but it's also a gift to be able to connect and be able to help other people to have disabilities and I knew when I was from the time I was very young I wanted to have a job where I could help other people that had disabilities and I also wanted to be able to use uh the creative side of myself as well how in in your work with students because I'm sure you you get flashbacks to boy when I was in school um what is the what is the one or two things that off that that you see the student needs the most that you're able to provide for them as a para educator and also as someone who have walked in their shoes I think the first thing our students need is encouragement because I have a lot of students that are going into school and they think that they're stupid and that they can't learn and things are going to be hard and it's just encouraging and looking for those gifts of things that they're good at if they're good at writing or if they're good at art or even if I can't help them with their math but if they're really good at doing math or just anything that I can just see a gift in and to show them okay maybe you struggle with this but you're really good at that and to encourage that to Foster that I also see students that need uh to be able to have just that sense that it's okay to have a disability a lot of times it's like you're recording of myself at that age I hate my learning disability I hate having the individual uh education plan and I get that opportunity to tell them it's okay to have a disability and that education plan is there help you and I think just hearing that from another person that has a disability sometimes I share about the disability other times I might just say okay I can't help you with math but I can help you in other areas and I think that too having that humility also helps kids to say to see that other teachers they struggle with things too yes but yeah we're not all good at everything perfect and um so and now I see that you're writing related to providing um helping others to understand learning disabilities and then um are there resources that you find that you are able to share what how do you how do you advocate for those who with disabilities outside of the classroom one of the there is definitely always resources for people that have disabilities and I think it's sharing a lot of the ones that are local or even the ones for people can go in their own community and try to find some of those I know office for Vocational Rehabilitation is a great one they pay for testing to see if you have a qualifying disability and if you do they pay for school they also provide accommodations for jobs and things like that I have more luck with them with school though I also there's also Health and Human Service agencies in the community that that can help out for different areas with different types of disabilities but you know not just learning disabilities and I think it's sharing tips and tricks from other people and what works that's one of the things I try to do in my blog is have people write about on the Forum just things that might work for them with different kind of uh questions and it's just getting the word out for things that work yeah we'll we'll definitely share the link to your blog in the show notes so that people can find you and be able to tap into your knowledge that you're you're sharing with others okay now tell us about the photography um that that's also a a happenstance that with your situation but yeah share with us how did that come about your not only a Advocate para educator writer and a photographer so share with us about that that's that was so interesting one of the things that I started is taking pictures I'm not a I can sometimes find details that other people might miss uh off because I can't drive because of my disability I get this in the passenger side of the car so I'll be in the car with my husband and I'll say did you see that and a lot of times my husband will say well I'm focused on the road however I did tell him on the last trip he's now picking up on details and showing me things so I think that's opened his eyes up yes um but I get that chance to take pictures of flowers and a lot of times people will say you bring out other details that I might have missed with that picture and I get to put them on my blog I have sometimes I accompany them with articles uh just as a piece where I might describe life with the learning disability and I also have a little store where people can purchase uh the artwork with my photos as well and it was unexpected when when it happened with taking these I always heard the theory that people with learning disabilities are good at Art and are visual and I thought well I can't draw a straight line and that was not something I don't remember being really frustrated with it and we were on a vacation uh for a wedding and I took a picture we were touring a graveyard and there was a beautiful statue of an angel in the cemetery and I took a picture didn't think much of it but my friend was looking through my pictures and she was very particular she said wow this is really good and I thought oh if she says it's good then I'm going to take note of this and I just for uh you know the heck of it I put it in a show and I won a small award for the cemetery Angel picture and that just started taking more pictures and uh learning different techniques and submitting them places as well that is fun that is funds and sometimes you know um your life situations you can you can make the best of it looks like you did with photography it sounds like you had um through the years now that you have walked out of the whole um you know you know Primary School in high school era and and gone through what you've gone through um I you you have really expressed it well with the whole rainbow concept you I think let me quote at the end you you wrote that rainbow has no end and no pot of gold at the end accepting fairy tales he said my learning disability will never disappear and I have not always found a prize at the end of such difficult situation I have had disappointments and have limitations because of my disability but the rainbow promises that there's something even better that is coming that is so positive and um and then I'm just thinking about your pictures and winning a prize with your pictures and things that you're not expecting it can still come and I'm sure there's you have many many examples of that um that that the better that has come as a result so your hopeful Outlook what's what were your some influencers in in your in your outlook is this just something that's part of your nature or um someone modeled it for you I had that model to me with my parents they were definitely always the ones that they didn't give up on me from the time I was really young they convinced me that I was smart I just learned differently and I also had some God has blessed me to some wonderful supportive friends too that they were always looking towards the positive of what I could do and just that reassurance of things would get better as well having having that community of family and friends can really make a difference okay we're we're coming towards the end and I wanted to ask you after you know um uh all the questions in in our conversation um if there were one or two things you want the audience to really take away um from our conversation what would what would you want them to take away well first I'd like to encourage people that have disabilities or or don't to be able to know what they want in life because I think there's a lot of people that might be afraid to wish or to dream or to help and to not be afraid to do that and I would also encourage them to be able to find a way to do it because sometimes what we think might not be the the way to do that and sometimes success doesn't come in the package that we expected to but it comes into something even better oh that's wonderful well you know through your story I have some takeaways too um I think that um although there's naysayers but it's the voices of the those encouragers that you hear the most and I said I heard I saw it I heard you say it like the student teacher um so I want you know to encourage all of us to be an encourager I also hear that um like you say you know sometimes life doesn't give you things that you expect in the right package but embrace your circumstances for what it might be and don't fight it but work with it is is I think at the end of the day that's the lesson learned don't fight it but work with it in use the accommodations that is afforded to you because it actually could help you and then the last thing I heard um I think it's very important is that if it's not there you got to advocate for yourself and find your voice in any and then your last comment is important is find your interest and pursue it and don't let people put you in a box exactly that is awesome thank you so much Michelle for sharing with us and um you know putting out their your learning disabilities but what I'm hearing a lot is what you're able to do um so thank you for um just sharing sharing your positivity with us and we wish you all the best and hope that you can continue to help many many students with you with with what you do at work and hopefully this this podcast will also help those who actually watched it so thank you so much well thank you it's been a pleasure thank you and that brings us to the end of another exciting episode of hello world please support our podcast by hitting the Subscribe button also don't forget to smash that like your likes will help our podcast reach more awesome people like you lastly tap that notification Bell to receive instant alert whenever we drop in a new episode we can't wait to see you again on our next episode until then keep on being a positive force in 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